ChIN简介页:Gmelin的电子产品 (Crossfire Gmelin)
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Gmelin的电子产品 (Crossfire Gmelin)

【问题】
     Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:03:44 -0600
From: Rob McFarland
Subject: Crossfire Gmelin
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

I am getting requests to subscribe to Crossfire Gmelin. We subscribe to Beilstein but not the Gmelin component.

I have hesitated because a year ago or so there was some conversation re: the Gmelin Institute and I thought something to the effect that this database was not up-to-date etc.

Could someone bring me up to speed about Gmelin Crossfire?

Have the problems (what ever they were) been resolved?

Is the database current?

Do you feel the extra $10k worth the price in light of any existing
problems?

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks - Rob

Rob McFarland Ph.D.
Chemistry Library
Washington University
St. Louis, MO 63130

Phone: (314) 935-6591
E-Mail: RTM@LIBRARY.WUSTL.EDU

【解决途径】
     Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:16:54 +0100
From: "E. Zass"
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

1) I have no information about a continuation of Gmelin. There are rumors about ongoing negotiations, but at present, no updates.

2) We find CrossFire Gmelin useful as it is (updates would be great, of course). ¨
All Swiss University Chemistry Depts. have licensed it since Jan 1st, 1998 (ETHZ had already licensed it in 1997, and after extensive tests, the others joined us)

3) Gmelin is no doubt less comprehensive than CrossFire Beilstein (i.e., you need follow-up searches in CA more often than in the Beilstein cases), but you find a lot of information there that you do not find anywhere else

Engelbert Zass

ETH Zuerich
Informationszentrum Chemie (Chemie-Bibliothek)
Universitaetstr. 16
CH-8092 Zuerich

zass@chem.ethz.ch
http://www.infochem.ethz.ch
FAX: ++41 (1) 632 1072
Phone: ++41 (1) 632 2964

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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:45:54 GMT
From: Helen Schofield
Organization: UMIST
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

Here in the UK a large number of universities have access to the CrossFire service, both Beilstein and Gmelin. I am part of the team which supplies and supports the databases in the community and am
in charge of the training programme throughout the UK and also some other areas of Europe.

The Gmelin part of the service is very popular and accounts for a fair proportion of the total usage of the CrossFire system in the UK academic community (I forget the exact percentage) and when I give
training courses often around a third of the attendees are organometallic chemists. There is lots of information besides pure chemistry on the database, including geochemical, mineralogical,
metallurgical. We have often helped physicists, electrical engineers and others find information of value as there is so much physical property data available. There are around 1 million compounds on the
Gmelin database. No abstracts to accompany the references, but much physcal data can be obtained directly or through references to the printed work.

The big problem, as you have correctly identified, is the fact that the database more or less ceases in 1994 at present. I understand that Elsevier/MDL/Beilstein Information Systems are trying to find a solution to this and a means by which the database can be updated. I would be interested to know if any progress has been made. The coverage over the years up to 1994 is also erratic at times and the database sometimes needs to be used in conjunction with a CAS product, but the flexibility in searching Gmelin is a very strong point as is the ability to search for compounds or materials which have specific properties.

Helen Schofield
Helen Schofield (Chemistry Dept, Library and MIDAS CrossFire Service)
UMIST, PO Box 88, Sackville St, Manchester M60 1QD, UK
Tel.: 44-161-200 4420
Fax: 44-161-200 4941
Email: helen.schofield@umist.ac.uk

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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:16:22 -0500
From: Arleen Somerville
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

One of my concerns has been that, as of 2 years ago, the Gmelin portion of CrossFire referred searchers to the print copy instead of giving the info online. that was not satisfactory.

Arleen Somerville
Univ. of Rochester

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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:21:28 +0100
From: "E. Zass"
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

Yes, this is not satisfactory in those cases where it occurs, but the far majority of data is indeed in the database

The simple presence of a handbook citation does in my experience NOT signify that there is more info in the handbook only - and even then, you usually still have the primary literature reference to check (which is IMHO more reliable than any handbook or abstract service)

The printed Gmelin Gandbook is still useful for READING into a topic - books do not suffer from the "blinker effects" ("Scheuklappen" in my native German) of computer screens, even if the latter are 20", as we all know

Beilstein CrossFire does not suffer from this problem, but in all fairness to Gmelin, inorganic chemistry is not as "homogeneous" as organic, and a lot of the almost essay-style material from the Gmelin Handbook did not translate nicely into a data structure (the Beilstein Handbook was more formalized and structured than Gmelin, and therefore more amenable to database conversion)

Engelbert Zass

ETH Zuerich
Informationszentrum Chemie (Chemie-Bibliothek)
Universitaetstr. 16
CH-8092 Zuerich

zass@chem.ethz.ch
http://www.infochem.ethz.ch
FAX: ++41 (1) 632 1072
Phone: ++41 (1) 632 2964

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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:44:08 -0500
From: Stephen Koch
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin (will it survive)
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

To supplement what has been said. The hard copies of Gmelin are (were) essentially multivolume review articles of the chemistry of an element. There is for instance multiple volumes on the organometallic chemistry of iron. You actually read the hard copies of Gmelin. I would think the hard copies of Gmelin are a prime candidates for digitalization. When Crossfire refers to a reference in the
hand book, you would click on the link and that part of the hand book would come to your screen.

Crossfire Gmelin is very valuable but the fact is that a database cannot survive if it is not being updated (no references since 1994). There are real holes in the database as well: much data is missing from the 1980's. There is no poorer advertisement for a database than not finding one's own published work in the database.

As an frequent user of Crossfire Gmelin, I have been trying on and off for two years to get real information on what is happening in Germany with respect to the people (the Max Planck society) that have inherited Gmelin. For the same period of time Beilstein/Elsevier has been advising me to keep
the faith that something was going to happen.

Gmelin died once at Stony Brook (about 8 years ago, against the will of the inorganic chemists, we had to give up our subscription to the hard copies of Gmelin because of the cost). When Cross Gmelin via Minerva came along we were able to get Gmelin back. As an inorganic chemistry, I would hate to be the person who would recommend killing Gmelin for the second time at Stony Brook. But I am tired of keeping the faith.

Steve Koch
Stephen A. Koch 516-632-7944 (7931) Koch@sbchem.sunysb.edu Fax 516-632-7960
Department of Chemistry, SUNY,Stony Brook, NY 11794-3400
Bioinorganic WWW Server: http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/koch/biic.html

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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:38:19 +0100
From: "E. Zass"
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin (will it survive)
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

Unfortunately, there is nothing one can really say against the (understandably) rather disappointed statement by Stephen.

The "holes" he mentioned I tried to document graphically (as a caveat to users) in

http://www.infochem.ethz.ch/Gmelin.GIF

Nevertheless, we like CrossFire Gmelin despite all its shortcomings as a

"first stop" for our end-users "at the bench"

because

1. We do not have SciFinder (Scholar)

2. CA on CD is available, but rather limited for compound searching, particularly inorganics (and in time covered)

3. For all detailed searches in CA (STN), the majority of students and faculty have to come to the Chemistry Information Center (very few research groups have their own STN accounts)

BTW, are there any experiences searching inorganics, materials and the tricky TIS with Scifinder Scholar ?

Engelbert Zass

ETH Zuerich
Informationszentrum Chemie (Chemie-Bibliothek)
Universitaetstr. 16
CH-8092 Zuerich
zass@chem.ethz.ch
http://www.infochem.ethz.ch
FAX: ++41 (1) 632 1072
Phone: ++41 (1) 632 2964

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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:12:25 -0500
From: Theresa Kavanaugh
Subject: Re: Crossfire Gmelin (will it survive)+Scholar
To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

Actually, I've just been reviewing inorganic searching using Scholar. The fact is, inorganic searching *is* harder than organic (imho). An example: Try a search on copper nanoclusters. In Scholar, you have two
options, by 'research topic' and by, essentially, 'chemical', which is really the CAplus file and the registry file, respectively. It shouldn't come as a surprise to this group that you should do a 'registry' search
first on copper (and the associated 300,000+ references) and then further refine by some research topic keyword like nanoclusters. I think though, that a end user might just type in 'copper nanoclusters' in the research topic field, and actually miss information.

Incidentally, we don't have Gmelin at Harvard, for many reasons, but a major one is the lack of currency.

Theresa Kavanaugh Ph.D. MLS 617-496-2728
Head Librarian in Chemistry Fax: 617-495-0788
Harvard University
12 Oxford St
Cambridge MA 02138
key on public PGP server

【相关链接】
  Gmelin库的进展 (2000-10-27)
  CrossFire
  Beilstein和Gmelin数据库使用指南
  Elsevier化学化工电子产品及解决方案
  CrossFire Gmelin系统与印刷版Gmelin手册的差异


Summary by 杨宏伟 on 2002-08-13

Last updated by 杨宏伟 on 2002-08-13

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